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Reggie Bannister at the Sunnyside Cemetery.
Introduction By
Todd Mecklem
These interviews have been lost for 15 years—lost deep in my archives.
They were originally going to be published in a horror magazine which
folded after the second issue (still owing me for at least one story
that they’d published). I should’ve tried to sell the interviews
elsewhere, but, discouraged, I let it drop. Now, many years later, I
think they’ll be of interest to PHANTASM phans, especially as Reg and
Angus talk at length about “the early years.”
I first met Reggie at a FANGORIA horror convention in L.A. in the
Spring of 1992. With my then-wife, the horror writer Denise Dumars [we
later divorced], I came upon a darkened room where PHANTASM was being
shown. We watched the rest of the film, and at the end, Reggie was
introduced and answered questions. I had the idea of interviewing him,
and asked for his number. Later we became friends, I co-wrote a
screenplay with him (it didn’t sell), and I visited the sets of
PHANTASM 3 and 4, even appearing as an extra in part 4…but that’s a
different story. Return with me now to 1992…the Bosnian war has just
broken out, the L.A. Riots have recently torn that city (and Reggie’s
hometown of Long Beach) apart, a former governor named Bill Clinton is
running for president…
THE INTERVIEW:
Reggie Bannister is known to a generation of horror fans for his work
in the classic 1979 film PHANTASM, written and directed by Don
Coscarelli. Reggie portrayed the guitar-playing ice cream man of the
same name, who helped his friends Mike and Jody (played by Mike Baldwin
and Bill Thornbury) battle the evil Tall Man. Bannister reprised his
role in 1988's PHANTASM II, trading in his ice-cream truck for a
Hemicuda and a quadruple-barreled shotgun.
Bannister is an actor, singer, and guitarist, and it was in the music
industry that he found his first success. During the 1960s he joined
several folk groups, including the Young Americans, the Greenwood
County Singers, and Stone Country. As a member of these groups he
performed on a number of record albums and made appearances on network
television.
During the early 1970s Bannister turned to acting. His work in several
plays at Long Beach City College led to his being cast in Don
Coscarelli's first film, JIM, THE WORLD’S GREATEST, which also featured
future "Tall Man" Angus Scrimm. Bannister then appeared in Coscarelli's
second film, KENNY & CO. After PHANTASM, Coscarelli and Bannister
teamed up again for SURVIVAL QUEST and PHANTASM II.
In 1990 Bannister appeared in INITIATION (marketed as Part 4 of the
SILENT NIGHT, DEADLY NIGHT series), directed by Brian Yuzna. He
recently played a jury foreman on an episode of NBC's L.A. LAW.
 On a beautiful June day I drove with my
wife, Denise Dumars, to Bannister’s home in the Bixby Knolls section of
Long Beach, California. Reggie then took us on a tour of nearby
Sunnyside Cemetery and Mausoleum. The historic mausoleum was built
during the 1920s, and is noted for its stunning Moorish architecture,
and for the Foucault’s pendulum which swings eternally beneath an
ornate, tiled dome. Sunnyside was one of the inspirations for
PHANTASM's Morningside Cemetery (Reggie confirmed that the similarity
between the names is not accidental). The funeral chapel scene early in
PHANTASM and the shot of Jody’s grave at the end of the film were both
shot there.
Mecklem: You
used to work here at Sunnyside. How did that come about?
Bannister: I
answered an ad that didn’t have the name of a business, it was a flower
shop ad. "Need a driver," and stuff. At the time, I had just finished
PHANTASM, and I needed another little day job. I answered the ad, and
it turned out to be a flower shop that was here, on the grounds of
Sunnyside. This was my straight job for a couple of years, and I ended
up getting to know every inch of this place. I was actually working
here when PHANTASM was released.
Mecklem: Did people ever run
into you here and recognize you?
Bannister: Actually, no. If
they did recognize me in these settings, they probably went the other
way!
Mecklem: You've had success
as both an actor and a musician...
Bannister: I was sort of
cursed with the blessing of two talents. I’ve played music all my life,
and I've acted. And I had always wanted to be successful at both of
them...well it's kind of tough, you have to focus on one thing, you
know? So consequently I would cop out, OK, I’d get burned out on music
and I would turn to acting. I would get burned out on acting and I’d
turn to music. And my life has been really a flip-flop. I’ve had
degrees of success, fairly substantial actually, in both fields, but
never been thrust into one or the other, in such a way that "that was
it."
Mecklem: What have you been
doing lately with your music?
Bannister: I’ve been writing
quite a bit, and recording, making demos. What I want to do at this
point is to get my songs into other artists’ hands.
Mecklem: How did you first
get involved with Don Coscarelli?
Bannister: I was doing plays,
I was in my cathartic moment, turning to acting, and I went back to
Long Beach City College, a school that I had been to once before,
before my music career had come along. They had the most amazing
theater arts department, led by the most amazing people...David Emmes,
Shashin Desai, Jim DePriest. These guys were terrific, they were all
actors, they were directors. Anyway, I was hanging out there, and I was
just immersing myself in acting, I would have three or four projects
going at a time.
There was this guy, he had written some small vignettes, they were
really interesting, and we decided to put them together, and call them
CIRCLE GAMES. I did the music for it too, so I was racing back and
forth, playing guitar and then going to be in the next vignette. So one
morning I got a call from a guy named Paul Pepperman, and Paul actually
had awakened me, I was kind of groggy, and he goes, we saw you in
CIRCLE GAMES, we're doing this little picture, and we have a part for
you. I did a lot of student films, I would do anything...never got paid
for any of it. The good films were shot in 16 millimeter, and I'm
thinking, well, this guy sounds like he might have a nice camera, this
might be kind of interesting, probably 16 millimeter. I go, “What are
you shooting in?” He goes, 35. I went, “35, really?” And he goes, yeah.
Yeah, we've got a budget, we can pay you. I just went, “Sure, man,
where do you want me to go?” (laughs)
So that was Don Coscarelli's first picture. He started when he was 17,
and it took him almost three years to make it. It was called JIM, THE
WORLD’S GREATEST. As a matter of fact, that was where I first met
Angus. He played an abusive alcoholic father who kills his son. I was
basically comic relief, I had about a five minute scene as this crazed
hang-glider pilot named “O.D. Silingsley.” The film had been pretty
heavy up to that point, and my job was to take the kids on a little
flying adventure. It was one of my favorite characters that I ever did
with Don, because it was so outrageous. I really had fun with it. If
you ever get a chance to see that, it's an interesting film.
Mecklem: I notice that you
and Mike were called by your own first names in PHANTASM.
Bannister: Mike Baldwin had
done some things with Don before, as I had, and Don knew us really,
really well, and I think he saw these characters as sort of like us [if
we were] involved in this situation. And, you know, Reggie is
everyman’s man. If you’re gonna go through the gates of hell this is
the guy you want next to you, because he'll give it up for you.
Something I like about the character is that I've become known as sort
of the “ultimate sidekick.” (laughs)
Mecklem: What was the
atmosphere on the set like during the filming of PHANTASM?
Bannister: We really had a
good time on the first one, because we were really winging it, and
everybody was inputting. I was talking to Don the other day, and he was
saving, “God, do you remember how much fun we had jamming ideas, and
what's this about and what's that about?” Everybody contributed, grips,
the crew, everybody. It was really kind of amazing...for example, the
“Stargate.”
Don had the design for this room in his head, and it was more imagery
than anything. Don has terrific imagery, you know, you can see it in
his scenes, the way he builds things. You can see it in his camera
work. So he took me into this room with these two chromium steel bars
coming out of the floor, and he goes, well, this is the Stargate,
Reg...one thing we really can't figure out is how it works. (laughs) I
was with my wife at the time, Susan--actually, she played a dwarf in
the film!--and Don left us in the room, and said, think about this, let
me know what you think, how this thing would work...this door into
another world. That’s the way Don really likes to work. So we were
looking at the canisters in there, and the Stargate, and Susan goes,
you know, it looks like the ends of a tuning fork. I said, it really
does...wow, that's really far out. We ran out to Don and said, hey Don,
we've got it. It's a tuning fork. And it sets up this vibration, it
actually causes a rent in this reality. And Don said, that’s it.
Possibly, the real key to what made PHANTASM what it became was that
there were a lot of people jamming ideas, what are we gonna do here, I
don’t know, let's construct something, let's make something. The old
“mother of invention.”
Mecklem: So much was left
unexplained in PHANTASM, was left to the imagination of the viewer...
Bannister: If you had to
explain what that movie was about, and you could extract one line out
of the picture, it was probably when the bug circles around Reggie’s
head, and he falls down and he goes, "What the hell is going on?"
(laughs) We felt that way many times making that picture. What the
hell’s going on here? I don’t know, you made it. I don’t know.
Mecklem: At the end of the
first film, you have that wonderful death scene, and then it turns out
that it was Jody who really died, and not you. Was that just to make it
seem like a dream for a moment?
Bannister: Right, right. Well,
was it a dream? I don't know. Do we know, now, as we stand here? What
is the reality and what is the dream? I've made two of ’em and I don’t
know. But that to me is what makes it frightening, because you don’t
know if you’re in or out. Of course, “phantasm” is something of no
substance, that becomes like a reality, but you can’t touch it, it’s
like a spirit, it’s a phantom. That’s where it all came from, phantom,
phantasm. You know, it’s like somebody's messing with your head. Or
your vibratory level has been raised, and you see these things, or it’s
been lowered...
The next time I really saw that work effectively was in AMERICAN
WEREWOLF IN LONDON. There were some really nice sequences in that. When
he was in that hospital room, fading in and out, never knowing if it
was real or what was going on...that was pretty scary stuff, because
consciousness is so fragile, isn’t it?
I constantly thank Don for giving me one of the longest death scenes in
the history of cinema. It was terrific.
 Mecklem: Why didn't Mike
Baldwin appear as Mike in the second film?
Bannister: What really
happened was, there was a financial interest involved in PHANTASM II,
that we didn't have to deal with in PHANTASM. With the kind of money
that they were laying out there, they wanted to have some say as to who
was in the film. As a matter of fact, I had to audition for my part in
PHANTASM II, which was kind of interesting... (laughs) Don wanted to
use Mike Baldwin, who was up in Oregon at the time, following his
spiritual heart, in a communal type of situation, but around the time
we shot the movie he was coming out of that, if not the spiritual
orientation at least coming out of the communal situation, and he was
interested in doing the picture. Don brought him down, and he had to do
a screen test, and Universal, they wanted to look at some other people.
So that's what happened. James Le Gros was chosen, and I think James is
a terrific actor...
Mecklem: What did Bill
Thornbury do after playing “Jody” in PHANTASM?
Bannister: Bill got really
heavily involved in his music, writing and stuff. He moved to Simi
Valley, and had some kind of deal providing songs for people in
Nashville. I haven’t seen Bill in, probably, six years.
Mecklem: At the FANGORIA
convention you mentioned the “lost scenes” from PHANTASM that were cut
from the final film...
Bannister: Yeah, there was
some fun stuff that we shot that never made it into the final picture.
There were some scenes where Jody had inherited the town bank from his
father and his mother, who had died in an automobile accident. And
here’s Jody, at, probably, 22 years old, in charge of the bank. It’s a
funny kind of a concept, and I think it would have worked. There was an
actual sex scene, in his personal office, where he has sex with his
girlfriend...in his chair, behind his desk! Well anyway...
We went up around Pasadena, and made a deal with these people to rent
an ice cream parlor. So Reggie was an ice cream man, but he was also a
musician, and in this ice cream parlor we built a little stage, and
this was where Reggie played his music. And people had their ice cream,
or whatever, late at night...he also sold Dos Equis beer. (laughs) It
was kind of fun, because they filmed me singing three of my original
songs, and they were gonna edit that in at various places, while Mike
and Jody and a couple of girls were sitting around a parfait table
eating ice cream--or actually they were drinking Dos Equis, or
whatever--the ice cream parlor was closed, so Mike could drink Dos
Equis, right? Anyway, this whole thing ends up in a big seltzer bottle
fight, throwing ice cream and seltzer water. We had a lot of fun doing
it, and the punchline to the scene was a close-up of an ice cream
sundae, and you pull back on this ice cream sundae, and you realize
that it’s huge, and it’s been built on Mike, who’s lying on the parfait
table passed out from the Dos Equis, and everybody’s sort of got the
munchies, sitting around eating the ice cream. (laughs) Didn’t make the
cut...
Mecklem: Tell me about the
Hemicuda. Whose Hemicuda was that?
Bannister: In the first
PHANTASM? The production company bought it, it was a car that Don
wanted to use, a big-time muscle car, 427 Hemi, and it's a lot of cubic
inches, and then you've got the Hemi heads on top of it, and black, it
just seemed like the right car for those guys to have. The production
company sold that car, so we had to come up with another one, in fact
we had to come up with two, for PHANTASM II.
Mecklem: In the video
version of PHANTASM, you're all in the “Stargate” room, it goes dark,
and suddenly Mike and Jody are outside running around--then the lights
go on and Reggie is still in the room. In the theatrical version, I
believe, there was some dialogue in the dark?
Bannister: It was funny
dialogue. I have no idea why they cut it out. It was great. The lights
go out, and there’s all this scuffling, the door opening, closing...and
then, with the screen dark, there’s this moment of silence. And then
you hear my voice go, “Jody? Mike? Oh, shit...” I realize I'm alone in
this stone dark room. Then it goes to the next scene.
Mecklem: What is Angus
Scrimm like?
Bannister: Angus is one of the
sweetest human beings in the world. I hope I haven’t blown his image,
but he's one of the sweetest, most charming men I’ve ever been around,
he’s intelligent and cultured...just a wonderful guy. He’s told me many
times that he’s still waiting for his little parlor comedy to act in,
and to be known for, although he loves the character of the Tall Man.
Mecklem: Are there any other
anecdotes about the making of the first PHANTASM film that come to mind?
Bannister: Any number of odd
things happened. One night, we were using a wind machine, and it was
very cold, and this guy, a grip, had on this muffler, and he was
operating the wind machine, and his muffler got caught in it, and we
almost lost him. Almost lost him...he almost choked to death.
I remember shooting at the Dunsmuir house [in Oakland, California],
which was used for the exterior shots of the mausoleum. It's a mansion,
once owned by one of the founders of the area, and that was beautiful,
god, the house was just fantastic. All the shots you see of that house
were done in a weekend. One weekend. And that was the longest, hardest
shoot that I remember. We had to get it all, because we couldn't go
back. We couldn't afford to go back.
Mecklem: Was there any
carryover of the crew between the two PHANTASM pictures?
Bannister: Oh, absolutely. For
one thing, Daryn Okada, who shot the second picture, and I think
everyone will agree he was terrific, on the first picture he was a
grip. Roberto Quezada, who produced PHANTASM II, on the first picture
was the lighting guy, the head gaffer. And the lighting on that picture
is terrific. And then Don. It was great. It was like coming home.
Mecklem: What was your
favorite scene in PHANTASM II?
Bannister: Well, I like funny
scenes. I'm particularly fond of the scene where Mike calls me out of
the car, to go take a leak, and we discuss the girl. I really like that
scene.
Mecklem: Are you a method
actor, were you really taking a leak?
Bannister: No comment. (laughs)
Mecklem: What about the
chainsaw duel?
Bannister: All the action
stuff was fun for me. We’re discussing more action if there should be a
PHANTASM III, for all of us, because the action is fun...
Mecklem: Speaking of action,
you were in the only real sex scene in PHANTASM II...
Bannister: I've gotta tell
you, I agree with all those actors who say that a sex scene is probably
one of the hardest to shoot. That particular scene, though, was a lot
of fun. To see Reg in that situation...it was just funny.
Mecklem: What are the
prospects for a PHANTASM III?
Bannister: Well I think the
prospects are good. You know...it’s like sex, conception, and birth.
You get together and you start having these thrilling conversations.
Stimulating, inspired talks. All right, that’s sex. And then, the
child, the product is conceived, that’s when you have the script
intact. And then the birth is at the final cut, now it’s ready for
release. That’s really an oversimplification, because the hard stuff is
the marriage. That’s all the stuff that goes on in between those
things. We’re conceiving some things right now, I’m getting together
with Don a little more, and we’re talking about it. I’m really thrilled
that he’s allowing me in this early, because I’ve never been in this
early with Don, though we’ve been friends for many years, and very
close friends, I must say. I wish I could tell you some specifics,
because we've discussed some exciting plot lines. Yeah, I believe it’s
gonna happen.
 Mecklem:
You really seemed to be enjoying yourself at the horror convention
where we met you. Do you get along well with fans?
Bannister: This genre,
horror...I’ve been fascinated with it ever since I was a little kid.
And I’ve tried to figure it out. The people that I’ve known as fans are
extremely bright, intelligent, creative...to call them strange, you’d
have to be so locked into the “everyday mundane world” that you
couldn’t see outside it. These people aren’t strange, they’re
different. And both on an intellectual level and on a social level,
they’re wonderful folks. I just love ’em. Every time I go to anything,
and they come up to me and talk to me, I go, jeez, this could be a
friend. I like to intellectualize, I like to talk politics, I like to
talk spiritualism, I like to talk about things that matter. And so do
these people, and we just get along great.
Mecklem: Who
is an actor who has really impressed and inspired you?
Bannister: I love Olivier.
Anybody, please, if you are not familiar with Lawrence Olivier, I don’t
care what genre you really love, please, check out Olivier. The guy was
the consummate actor. I must have watched six films of his, and not
realized that it was Larry Olivier until about halfway into the film.
Seriously. Because the guy could put on a character so strongly. I
firmly recommend him as someone to watch if you want to know something
about acting.
Mecklem: How long have you
worn your ponytail?
Bannister: Well, the tail
comes and goes. I’m a product basically of the Sixties, I graduated in
1963 from Long Beach High School, and went through the whole music,
hippie scene, “alternative lifestyle” we called it, so when I was asked
to play this character by Don, it was pretty relevant to me. I’ve let
my hair go short, and I’ve let it go long. Right now, I kind of like
the idea that it’s nice and long, because hair is a statement just like
anything you do with looks, and I’d like people to look at me and go,
oh, he’s different. I don’t want to fit in with status-quo people,
because I think that status-quo people are extremely wrong, now. I
don’t believe in status-quo anymore. And I’m ready to start making
statements with my looks, and with letters to the editor, and whatever
I can do with my vote, that’s why we did it in the Sixties, and I
really believe that’s why I'm doing it now.
And you know what, I like it. It sets me apart. And I want people to
know that I think, that I'm not just some kind of a zombie walking
around, voting for President Bush, or Patrick Buchanan.
Mecklem: We were chatting
earlier at your house, and you mentioned your ideas about racism...
Bannister: I’d like to get
this into print somewhere. I really believe that racism is a tribal
thing, that was inherent in every human being. And in a civilized
world, you’ve gotta get those things in balance. We don’t have to be
tribal. This black guy is not gonna take my house away from me. It’s
more likely that the banker, the white banker, is gonna take my house
away from me. Maybe that's what we should be worried about. This
Mexican family is trying to get along, just like me, you know? They’re
not a threat, there is no threat from race anymore. It always occurs,
every time somebody does something in front of us that we think is odd,
we relate it to the race that they are. “Oh, they’re different, oh, my
god, oh what am I gonna do, oh...” These things have to stop. The only
way to stop is to recognize the fact that we have it in us, and it’s
there, and we’ve gotta deal with it. And the sooner we can deal with
it, the better off we will be as people. I don’t know about the world,
because I think the government’s gone out of control, but as people, we
will be much better off.
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